Curse

the_jos · Oct 10, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

How many times have you been in a town and seen somebody spaming for a pug to vanquish a zone? Or Cartographer? Skill Capping?
There are a few, but only a very very small number of the still large population out there.

This is a teaming problem, not a H&H problem.
For example, yesterday we as 4 guildies took a HM player I met recently for a vanquish.
I don't mind doing those kinds more often, given that I have played with them before in a HM mission so I know they would not be a burden on a vanquish.

And I know there are quite a number of people that are interested in playing HM once in a while with a team but can't because it's too hard to team up.

Star Gazer · Oct 10, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

And I know there are quite a number of people that are interested in playing HM once in a while with a team but can't because it's too hard to team up.

who wants to take that mending wammo to do lair of the forgotten. i, for one, do not want to. It is the idiots in this game (and I do say idiots because they cannot be taught, either willingly or unwillingy) that ruin pugging in HM. Not heros.

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 10, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

The simple fact is that between now and GW2 they're either going to have to let us have 7 heroes or the elite areas and various swaths of hardmode are basically going to become unplayable. As the population of the game shrinks there are going to be even fewer people in these (often already deserted) areas.

Those areas are already unplayable due to population loss and spreading.

ANet obviously has no problem relegating many areas of the game to the dust-bin.

the_jos · Oct 10, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

who wants to take that mending wammo to do lair of the forgotten. i, for one, do not want to. It is the idiots in this game (and I do say idiots because they cannot be taught, either willingly or unwillingy) that ruin pugging in HM. Not heros.

I'm wondering why you did not include the following part of my same posting in your quote ....... :

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

given that I have played with them before in a HM mission so I know they would not be a burden on a vanquish.

My reply was on a specific situation on teaming pointed out by Crom The Pale and you just turn it into a general "PuGs suck" statement.

I meet those idiots quite frequent, can pick them out fast and just don't add them to my friends list.
So they don't go with us (guild) on vanquish.

Furtermore, while you don't care about teaming, that does not mean no-one cares.
I don't depend on PuG, I can do without them (gg HM guild, alliance with HM focus and friends list).
But I like to team up with them sometimes, just to help them out on parts I know are difficult for a lot of players.
Hoping to make them somewhat better players (some will, some won't).
And some go to friends list and get an invite to join a vanquish.
And that won't be the idiot wammo.

Quote:

Those areas are already unplayable due to population loss and spreading.

And lack of good teaming options

bhavv · Oct 10, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I was just having a great argument over alliance chat about 7 heroes with a monk that was trying to H/H marga coast HM. He kept failing and got 60% DP, saying over and over he hated H/H and only wanted to play with humans (Heroes ruined the game etc, they should be removed).

So to prove him wrong I attemted marga coast HM. Vanquished it easilly with me and my heroes being on 4-6% MB. His response was its easier for an elly then it is for a monk lol.

The differance between finishing an area easilly on HM and someone else getting wiped to 60% DP isnt due to your class, but how you spec your heroes. And if your a monk, stop people from dying in the first place. Should be a lot easier for a human monk then it is for Tahlkora and Khim shouldnt it?

Oh believe me if my monk was my primary character, HM would be sooo freaking easy. If your a monk and your party keeps dying and getting 60% DP, doesnt that just tell you wake up and try to learn how to monk better?

Another remembrance for why I never never never want to play with with people in this game. I am blunt when I see terrible skill bars or people playing badly and say it clearly 'That bar sucks', or 'Your doing it completely wrong, learn to play better'. Obviously they get insulted and all of a sudden I'm the noob. XD

I dont have any problems with H/H when vanquishing, although there are severe limitations on the skill bars there, E.G in Elona I'm currently using Khim, Herta, Devona and Gehraz as my henchmen.

Herta is pretty decent, but has two wasted skill slots on stone daggers and aura of res. Also her Gwen bar would be a lot better then her NF one.

Khim is only half a monk, no alternative comment there. She has skills missing, and no hex removal. Just want to add Lina's Gwen bar to her sooo baddly, or just have the option of using the almighty LoD prot monk hero bar instead (Full prot bar with LoD).

Devona again only has half a skill bar and charge as her elite, Gehraz doesnt even have an rlite lol.

Why do I seriously have to be limited by henchmen with inneficient skill bars or by players claiming they are pro when they get wiped to 60% DP in the easiest places?

Plz just give us 7 heroes, its the only thing I want right now more then anything in GW, and make eveyones gaming experience so much more fun.

Sorry, I mean make everyone that knows how to play the game's experience so much more fun, and not have to be limited by henchmen and ignorant players.

Vinraith · Oct 10, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

Those areas are already unplayable due to population loss and spreading.

ANet obviously has no problem relegating many areas of the game to the dust-bin.

You may be right, and that would be unfortunate. For now, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they're just being hard headed. Ultimately it comes down to that promise they made about continuing to support GW from now to GW2 and beyond. Supporting the game in other ways is meaningless is people can't play large areas of it for lack of anyone else being around.

We'll see what they do. If they never give in on this point and the game simply falls into abandoned decay it'll definitely impact any future purchasing decisions I make regarding Anet.

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I am blunt when I see terrible skill bars or people playing badly and say it clearly 'That bar sucks', or 'Your doing it completely wrong, learn to play better'. Obviously they get insulted and all of a sudden I'm the noob. XD.

You start out with saying 'That bar sux'?
If you are as pro as it seems by reading your text, you can't explain others in a nice and understanding way what they should exchange and why?
No wonder if people get insulted if that really is your attitude.
You see, I often see that the 'pug problem' is the player who leads problem.
I know, there are players that quit on first wipe etc., but I know as well that there are way more players that are willing to listen, if you take your time to explain skills and strategy before entering.

I still think that the 'give us 7 hero's campaign' is silly.
Why? Because I don't see a problem in vanquishing, doing missions and elite stuff with heroes/henchmen.
And why I don't see the problem? Because I can do it myself.

On the other hand, I'm in a good position as well now.
I got a small and good guild with descent players, so we mainly do those things as a team.
Most people actually don't mind doing things they already did.
I think that is what helping each other out is about.

And how come that this 7 heroes whine came so late?
I mean, its ages since HM was introduced, no whining from those who did it all back then, and still do it now.

Bryant Again · Oct 11, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I still think that the 'give us 7 hero's campaign' is silly.
Why? Because I don't see a problem in vanquishing, doing missions and elite stuff with heroes/henchmen.
And why I don't see the problem? Because I can do it myself.

Same here, it'd just be more fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

And how come that this 7 heroes whine came so late?
I mean, its ages since HM was introduced, no whining from those who did it all back then, and still do it now.

Some people are pretty annoyed to have so many heroes (25 of em) and only be able to use four. While I can easily live without the four additional hero slots, it would still be pretty fun to have them. I like to be able to customize a whole party, not half of it.

Sleeper Service · Oct 11, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ht=seven+heros

11-15-2006, 08:34 AM

its been on peoples minds for ages (and i didn't look very hard either)

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Same here, it'd just be more fun

Some people are pretty annoyed to have so many heroes (25 of em) and only be able to use four. While I can easily live without the four additional hero slots, it would still be pretty fun to have them. I like to be able to customize a whole party, not half of it.

Granado Espada : Sword of the new world, is like this.
Easy mode ftw.
I don't find it fun at all.

Bryant Again · Oct 11, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Granado Espada : Sword of the new world, is like this.
Easy mode ftw.
I don't find it fun at all.

Uh, okay...?

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Uh, okay...?

Means you can afk, go make coffee or other stuff, monsters respawn there.
The enhanced AI makes it so easy, that it isn't a fun game to play.
It's like having a legal bot in game.
And what is the point of playing a game that you don't play?
You just look at some AI doing everything for you.

I know 7 heroes still is far from that, but it will still get faster and more boring with them.
I know that I can choose not to, but how will a new player know?
We got hard mode into the game because we wanted more challenge, not to whine and get it easy now.

I just saw a wonderful post, from a player that just started on Prophecies recently. He loves the game, he even pugs and advances.
That almost made me cry after reading all the complaints about pugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ht=seven+heros

11-15-2006, 08:34 AM

its been on peoples minds for ages (and i didn't look very hard either)

Looking for search box, none visible here.

Crom The Pale · Oct 11, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

The people asking for hard mode may not be the vast majority nor are they the only people asking for 7 heros.

And increasing the fun is rather subjective. There are people that love to farm. Love to do DoA and still how many love staying in Pre-Searing.....

Just because you would not find it a benifit does not mean 10 000's of other wouldn't.

As far as new players go we only need to look at Consulate docks to discover how they will react to 7 Heros. That is the first mission in Nightfall where a person must take hench or a pug to complete.(talking about playing at a lvl20 environment) IF they have a good time with a pug there, then they will most likely keep puging till they have a few problems. If its bad right from the start then they may never join a pug, and this comes long before they can possibly have access to 7 heros.

New players in prophicies and factions would not be affected at all, save that one person with 6 heros could help them out rather than needing to use any hench or run them to Nightfall for heros of thier own.

Sleeper Service · Oct 11, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

that link works for me but ill quote the first post (do not resurrect that thread)

Hero limit
11-15-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellsword

As it is now, we got 15 (soon to be 16) Heroes, yet we can only take up to 3 with us at once, which means that most of them probably won't get much use, sadly. The limit also means that we still have to take the non-customizable henchmen to get a full party. I think the limit should be removed (in PvE only).

Any thoughs?

source : http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ht=seven+heros

theres no doubt that its a steadily growing demand.

Bryant Again · Oct 11, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Means you can afk, go make coffee or other stuff, monsters respawn there.
The enhanced AI makes it so easy, that it isn't a fun game to play.
It's like having a legal bot in game.
And what is the point of playing a game that you don't play?
You just look at some AI doing everything for you.

So are you against 7 heroes or heroes period? You could still do that with henchies, anyways.

And I think it's awesome that you can AFK. It's the closest thing you can get to a pause button.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I know 7 heroes still is far from that, but it will still get faster and more boring with them.

I find it boring only being able to the build's of half of my team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I just saw a wonderful post, from a player that just started on Prophecies recently. He loves the game, he even pugs and advances.
That almost made me cry after reading all the complaints about pugs.

Everyone's nicer when they're new. I say he'll lose that innocence when he gets to the Crystal Desert. If he's lucky, Southern Shiverpeaks.

zwei2stein · Oct 11, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Means you can afk, go make coffee or other stuff, monsters respawn there.
The enhanced AI makes it so easy, that it isn't a fun game to play.
It's like having a legal bot in game.

Last time i checked, you could really do that when you outlevel monsters a bit since there is no ai beyond "attack whatever is attacking me"

It wont use skills for either healing or damage. All it will do is to autoattack, so monsters will wear them down, eventually. Besides, is you stay long enough in one place, spawns get nastier (monster that outlevels you by 20-30 levels, instakill.)

To be able to survive in areas designed for your level you are hard pressed to really controll three simlutaneous characters, with is tons harder than having GWs heroes

Quote:

And what is the point of playing a game that you don't play?
You just look at some AI doing everything for you.

Since when does it mean that having AI assist you equals not really playing game?

One would thing that baldursgate series were really terrible games since they allowed one to turn on AI lantern...

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So are you against 7 heroes or heroes period? You could still do that with henchies, anyways.

Yeah, absolutely against the idea.

One of my irl friends played GW for around 2 weeks or less.
Something around 4 days in played time.
Completed all 3 campaigns, got his elite set, plenty of gold, and then he stopped playing.
He started with Nightfall... Heroes

If you where a game company making an online rpg, you would like as many as possible to have fun with your game.
More people having fun and enjoying it = more money.
But at the same time, you would like them to enjoy it as long time as possible, well at least until you can release something more = even more money.
Remember, this is not a solo-play only game, what you do alone affects the multi-play part of the game as well.
So if something that you can do alone, affects the multi part so much that it spoils something for way more players then the benefit for you, it should not be implemented.
In other words, loss of you compared to loss of many other players is better money wise.
It may suck, but its not about taking care individual fun only.

I can see that some may have more fun with 7 heroes, but at the same time I can see some advantages and disadvantages such an option will bring into the game.
Which weight is greater is up to Anet to conclude, I think they already did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And I think it's awesome that you can AFK. It's the closest thing you can get to a pause button.

Do you think bots are ok as well?
For the pause button, uhm.. you can't park you party at an already cleared spot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I find it boring only being able to the build's of half of my team.

I see, so because you got heroes introduced into the game, and because you can only use 3 of them at the time, you only create builds for 3?
And just because it is made possible to use heroes, you think you should be able to use 7 at once?
You know that a reason for having all those heroes, is that you can make them differ build wise with runes and insignias, as well giving the players a choice of how their hero part of the party looks?
Being a bit sarcastic there, but I see it as a reason why we only get 3 heroes at a time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Everyone's nicer when they're new. I say he'll lose that innocence when he gets to the Crystal Desert. If he's lucky, Southern Shiverpeaks.

What's the problem doing it with H+H?
You can even get the protector title with H+H.
I think it's more about different type of gamers, but both you and me know it is not possible to please everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

that link works for me but ill quote the first post (do not resurrect that thread)

Worked for me to, was a comment to you saying that you didn't looked hard.
I don't see a search box on the guru forums....

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Since when does it mean that having AI assist you equals not really playing game?

One would thing that baldursgate series were really terrible games since they allowed one to turn on AI lantern...

What I mean is, if AI goes so far that it becomes like having a bot, yes.

Baldurs Gate AI was brilliant, since you had to keep an eye out for your company all the time. Wish they had made it a bit more like that in GW.
Could be fun seeing Tahlkora rage quitting the party because Odgen tells her that she is a bad healer.

nugzta · Oct 11, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Could be fun seeing Tahlkora rage quitting the party because Odgen tells her that she is a bad healer.

Its called PuG and thats why I dont do it. And obviously when people say something is fun or boring or etc, its purely subjective. Go have your fun seeing someone ragequitting.

Mineria · Oct 11, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Its called PuG and thats why I dont do it. And obviously when people say something is fun or boring or etc, its purely subjective. Go have your fun seeing someone ragequitting.

LOL it was a reference to Baldurs Gate.
The merchs=heroes you tag along with there can start to argue and so on.
Exactly like players do some times.
But if you never played that game you don't know the fun part of it either.